Dacic for the Voice of America: The attitude of the West towards Serbia has changed; the CSM is a prerequisite of all prerequisites

In an interview with the Voice of America, Dacic emphasized two red lines - the issue of Kosovo's recognition, that is, the issue of Kosovo's membership in the United Nations, and - as he put it - "a prerequisite for all preconditions" to first form the Community of Serb-majority Municipalities.

"This is something that we really need not discuss or negotiate again because this is something that we agreed upon when we signed that agreement 10 years ago", the head of the Serbian diplomacy and First Deputy Prime Minister said.

Dacic pointed out that the most important thing for him during his stay in Washington were the talks at the State Department, with the officials he had recently also met in Belgrade - Counselor Derek Chollet and Special Envoy for the Western Balkans Gabriel Escobar.

"The central topics were our bilateral relations, that is, the way in which we strive to progress in those relations. I think that the phone conversation that State Secretary Blinken had with President Vucic ahead of today's session of the Serbian parliament is also important. That call was a direct consequence of the stance that I could hear both in Brussels and here in Washington - and I think that is perhaps the most important message, which is that the approach and position of President Vucic, that is, of Serbia, is evaluated as constructive and responsible. And it is often compared to Pristina and Kurti - for whom there are opposite assessments", Dacic said and added:

"I could hear here that they speak positively about Serbia, and they themselves say that the position of the Quint, including the U.S., has changed very significantly in relation to this positioning of Serbia, which shows that this was the right decision".

Dacic said that it was also important that he heard from U.S. officials that they are "aware of how difficult it is for Serbia to talk about it at all".

"For example, I can speak about all this from personal experience, because I am with Vucic, and at that time I was the Prime Minister, you remember at that time, when the Brussels Agreement was signed, and we were under attack from various sides - that we betrayed Kosovo, and so on, they even cursed us and I don't even know what; sued us in court... So, of course, any discussion on this topic will be difficult, and this is shown by these events today that I was able to follow, as far as I saw there were incidents in the Serbian parliament - which of course is not good, because we need to have unity regarding the approach to those state and national issues".

Voice of America: It is no secret that America is perhaps most interested in progress in the dialogue between Belgrade and Pristina in the last few years. We have a Franco-German plan, about which at least officially we do not know much, except that both America and Europe demand that Serbia and Kosovo sign it, and it seems that there is a lot of pressure on both sides to do so. Have you felt that in the conversations here?

Dacic: This is not about pressure, because as you know Serbia has positioned itself constructively and with us – unlike with Pristina - there is no need to talk in such a way, to force someone to accept something. They should talk to Pristina to accept to implement something they signed ten years ago. So that is a huge difference in approach. We are here talking about something that would be unacceptable for us in relation to the very text of that new agreement. And here we are talking about something else. There is no doubt that our position there is good, but the topics we talk about are difficult and based on some things that I think are very difficult to discuss. To convince someone whether we are right or wrong because all that persuasion and argumentation that we present, which is very often similar to that which is happening in connection with the territorial integrity of Ukraine... but you know what, we are not in a position to determine how the great powers will decide on that issue. So it is obvious that in the coming period, but only when we enter into some further implementation of all this because we have not even entered into all of that, then we will discuss extremely difficult issues, whether certain decisions should be made or not and in that sense they clearly stated what was something we could count on and what was something we could not count on. And in this regard, it can be said that these were some points, that is, consequences that we could face in the event that Serbia was characterized as being the cause of the failure of that dialogue. This is not the case at the moment. Which is good.

Voice of America: It appears that the U.S. has never exerted more pressure on Kosovo to form a Community of Serb Municipalities. However, the American side - as both Mr. Chollet and Mr. Escobar have indicated several times - considers it a separate process from the Franco-German agreement. Is that how Serbia perceives it?

Dacic: It is separate, but you know in what sense - that it is not a part of this new process. It is a part of the Brussels Agreement process and we agree with it. In what sense - that it precedes something that we will do further. We cannot wait now for it to be formed at the end of some process. No, we think this is something that was agreed upon.

This is a prerequisite for the return of the Serbs to institutions. And why is that so? People no longer remember that context, I told Borrell that, too. He asks why the Serbs would not return to the institutions, and I tell him: I don't know exactly in which room in Brussels we signed that agreement, but we signed it together here with Thaci and Catherine Ashton. I tell him that, for a while, they kept my picture here in the European Union when I signed it with Thaci. What did I sign? Did I sign to have the Community of Serb Municipalities? And that it was a condition that the Serbs in such a way, when the institutions of the state of Serbia are abolished, could create their own institutions in Kosovo and thus enter the Community of Serb Municipalities and through that enter the institutions of those provisional bodies in Kosovo.

And now what should that mean - that we deceived our people and that you deceived me because I signed it... We just do not want it to be a part of some new agreement, some new process, that it turns out that we have not agreed on anything so far. So, it is not part of the new process. That is the part that has to be finished. Those are the undertaken commitments. They are not part of any new agreement.

"It is easy to sit on the terrace and give lectures"

Voice of America: How do you interpret the opposition's criticism that this is all treason?

Dacic: I do not know on what basis they can claim something like that, because Serbia has not undertaken a single commitment so that someone could claim something like that. President Vucic did not sign anything, nor did he give his consent, or initialed that we had undertaken some obligations. We said that we wanted to discuss it as always. We participated in the dialogue even when we did not like the text, both in Brussels and in some other places, before in 2008 or 2012. This is absolutely manipulation, politicization, and scoring political points. If someone really wants to discuss all these issues, they should express their opinion, and their proposals, say what should and what should not be done, what is acceptable for them and what is not acceptable.

We can theoretically discuss some things. We theoretically had… before 2000, you remember, that the DOS (Democratic Opposition of Serbia) was talking about the issue of Kosovo as a democratic issue. That it had nothing to do with territorial integrity. That it is a democratic issue, so when Milosevic leaves, it will all be resolved somehow. It turned out not to be so. Then we had standards before status, only for that to also be abandoned. Then there were two tracks at the time of Tadic. Separate tracks - one is the issue of European integration, and the other is the issue of Kosovo. And they were allegedly not supposed to collide with each other. However, they somehow collided at the first corner.

It is simple if you sit on a terrace and do not participate in the process. It is easy to lecture others and disparage everything someone else does. But when you have an issue like this, which is of state and national importance, it would above all be important to come up with a unified approach to everything. What our red lines are, what we accept, what we can do. We should know what we do not accept. And as for everything else, we need to have tactics so that it does not turn out that it all failed because of us. And it is easy to say now that we will not participate in the dialogue. This is not right, because by doing so we are drawing all the negative energy of the world onto us. You heard what the President said. The Community of Serb Municipalities needs to be formed before going any further in this matter. And secondly - we think that, as far as we are concerned, that is also a red line that we would not be able to cross, and that is for us to agree that Kosovo should enter the United Nations. Everything else can be discussed, and that is the correct political approach.

Voice of America: Tell me, what did they tell you about the red lines here in Washington?

Dacic: They have different views; they proposed it. You know, we will not agree with them on everything. Chollet said to me: "You are wasting your time with these withdrawals of recognition". I mean, that is just not that important to them. It is important for us. Why does it matter? Because we do not have the support of major powers, we have to rely on numbers, and those numbers... if someone wants, for example, to have Kosovo apply for membership in the UN, it is very important to us what each of those countries thinks because, at the end of the day, there are principles by which one votes. Therefore, we should not expect them to adapt their views to ours, but we should just say... they have in mind what is possible for us and what is not possible. I think that is fair. The talks were very fair; they said they would be transparent with us. I say once again - they spoke very positively about President Vucic and his approach and Serbia's position in general. I think it should be used for the development of our bilateral relations.

Voice of America: Counselor Derek Chollet, speaking recently about the Community of Serb-majority Municipalities, mentioned that Kosovo should form the CSM in the north of Kosovo. Does this mean that it is only about four municipalities or is it about the entire territory of Kosovo, where we have 10 municipalities with a Serb-majority population?

Dacic: Ten municipalities; I do not know now to what extent and whether he is familiar with all these things, but in principle, you know when you look at it, these are municipalities with a Serb-majority population. So for now there are ten of them. That is how it was when I participated in all that, I suppose that the number is still the same today...

"CSM was not considered as a new Republic of Srpska"

Voice of America: And there should have been an option for every other municipality to join; there are many different interpretations...

Dacic: But we did not get far from all that. So this is what we talked about 10 years ago and the task was to work out the way it would function, in the shortest possible time. And then it stopped. And then they started with those stories that it was not in accordance with the constitution of Kosovo, that they would not accept it - both the first and the second and the third and the fifth, each one that came was worse than the previous one. And we came to a situation where, 10 years later, we are still debating whether a Community of Serb Municipalities should be formed or not. And that is the European "Acquis communautaire" (obligation of all countries that want to join the EU, author’s note). So they are now telling us that Serbia should accept some European policies. That is all fine and well. But is the Brussels agreement part of European policies? Was it not signed by Catherine Ashton? Why is that not an alignment with European Union policy? Will Pristina comply with that - it will not.

We talked about it then in one way, and we talked about how to design the functioning of the Community of Serb Municipalities, to really make it in a way that would be of importance to the Serbs - to be their representation in Kosovo and Metohija. Of course, no one has ever considered that issue, so that it would be a new Republic of Srpska or something like that. We were not even interested in that. But obviously, the other side does not want anything related to Serbia to appear on the political scene in Pristina. That is why this position of America is

important. It would be very bad if America said: "Now we will not interfere, and now we do not insist on the formation of the Community of Serb Municipalities". And that is why we are grateful to them, because frankly speaking, if they were not there, leading the way, it would be hard for someone else to push that through, I am talking about European countries.

Voice of America: If Kosovo is the number one problem on Serbia's European path, then right next to Kosovo is the fact that Serbia has not yet aligned with the EU's foreign policy and imposed sanctions on Russia. You have already spoken on this topic several times since returning to the position of head of diplomacy, even in an interview with the Voice of America. You said that Serbia could not let go of the Russian hand that was holding it while hanging over the cliff until the West gave it its hand. Do you still see the situation that way?

Dacic: We have to look at it that way because we cannot look at that position differently because we have to imagine ourselves in that position. One is a matter of principle, as far as that is concerned, Serbia is extremely principled, and we condemn the violation of territorial integrity. The problem here is that neither the West nor the East is principled enough, that is, they interpret the principle of territorial integrity differently. When it comes to the West, they think that the territorial integrity of Ukraine should be defended, but that the issue of the territorial integrity of Serbia, that is the issue of Kosovo, is a different issue, they always interpret it as a unique issue. But anyone can think that their issue is a unique one, outside of all other frameworks, even if it is not an exception but belongs to something called a corpus of unique issues.

However, when it comes to the East, they also come and say - if Kosovo can, then the provinces in Ukraine can declare themselves independent states, and now they support us on the other side in the United Nations. They use that example in their own interest, that what happened in relation to Kosovo. So, we now have to look at our interest, and that interest is that if we have not completed the dialogue with Pristina, then it is not fair for someone to back Pristina to become a member of the Council of Europe, or the UN or the EU. As long as this is the case, until we have guarantees from the West that they will be fair to us, we cannot lightly give up our position and secure votes when it comes to the position regarding Kosovo and Metohija.

And that is the bottom line, and it is not just about Russia, other countries are under the impact of sanctions, and that is why we have to be careful. After all, we can now interpret it in one way or another; every country would act the same in our place, and they acted the same in their history.

Voice of America: You also mentioned that Serbia could reconsider its position if the decision not to impose sanctions caused damage to Serbia that could not be tolerated, as was the case now. Are we close to the damage becoming too great?

Dacic: I think we are not close because then this would not be in Serbia's interest. We would have to accept that, even though it is not in Serbia's interest. We want to create a situation where… Serbia's interest is such that we join some new policy, and relations with Western countries... that is why we need to look for the lowest or the highest common denominator, regardless, and that is not an easy and simple process so I think we are far from that situation. Why? Because the most important question now and I think it is the question of all questions, is the

question of Ukraine. For us, that issue cannot be separated from the issue of Kosovo, that is, from the issue of the territorial integrity of Serbia. It is important that those who want to discuss it with us have an understanding of our position.

"Pressure is aimed primarily at Pristina"

"It is very difficult to discuss what Albin Kurti proposes when you have something you signed 10 years ago", said Serbian Foreign Minister Ivica Dacic, commenting on the six conditions that the Prime Minister of Kosovo set to form the Community of Serb-majority Municipalities.

"International representatives told me that he had told them that he would not form the Community of Serb Municipalities before that agreement is signed, and before signing the agreement he is asking that the five European Union member states that have not recognized Kosovo do so. This means that they are supposed to recognize Kosovo, so that he proceeds with the implementation of this agreement, and secondly, that he wants to be told the exact date when they will accept his application for membership in the European Union and NATO... At this moment, all that fierce criticism and pressure is aimed primarily at Pristina", said Dacic and added:

"As far as Belgrade is concerned, we will pursue a policy that will be based on the protection of national and state interests, as well as the future of Serbia. We will not allow sanctions to be imposed on Serbia, not because we think that no one would do that, but because we need to make sure that does not happen. This means that we should be flexible, but also not to be flexible below some red line that we talked about. Years pass, but the topics remain the same".

No mention of the murder of the Bitici brothers

Voice of America: One of the bilateral issues in the relations between Serbia and the U.S. that has not been resolved for many years is the question of the murder of the Bitici brothers. Was that a topic during this visit? How far has this case progressed in Serbia?

Dacic: No, I did not talk about it this time, because now, other more current topics were on the agenda, but it is a topic that American officials raise regularly. They have their own preparations for meetings and that question is always among the talking points for those meetings. It is something they will not give up. I have not been informed, since I was not the Minister of Foreign Affairs for two years, I did not go into the details of those cases, but it is certainly something that we will have to face in the coming period.

Source / Photo: Voice of America (VOA)